Native ChocTalk

S2, E16: Coach James Nells (Navajo) on Growing Up On the Reservation & the Sport That Turned His Life Around

There was something comforting about the familiar scent of cedar that permeated from the wood burning stove inside the hogan each evening (“hogan” being the traditional home for the Navajo, in this case built of wood, with a dirt floor). The stove had 3 vents. And little sleepy James would watch the shadows from the vents on the walls, like fire dancing. As his heavy eyelids would slowly cover his eyes (despite trying to keep them open), he felt a sense of security as he couldn’t help but listen to his family members all snug inside talking about the day, the sounds and smells lulling him to sleep.

It was years later when James realized the significance of being surrounded by multiple Code Talkers as he was growing up (including his grandfather, Lemuel Yazzie) as they would all sit around talking about their time as Code Talkers. Even the Medicine Man who spoke many prayers for James was a Code Talker.

In Winslow, Arizona sits the Navajo Reservation, where my guest, Coach James Nells – Navajo, Salt Clan born for Under his Cover Clan – was born and raised. Life on the Reservation wasn’t always easy. Despite no electricity, herding sheep and hauling water, being surrounded by familiar centuries-old traditions and culture, somehow nearly kept intact despite the force of time and assimilation, was always “home”.

Coach Nells speak in his Navajo language and shares his inspirational story from reservation to foster care, to boarding school, to champion runner.

FYI, Coach Nells talks about the Navajo’s traditional squaw dance. This is a traditional term the Navajo called these dances and still call them to this day. I think it’s important that we respect their tradition and their right to call it what they do.

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S2, E14: The Mystery of the Train Ride to Indian Territory, Jennifer Story

There are many mysteries out there - many that will never be solved. And some mysteries are so frustrating, they’ll leave a gap in your soul. One of those such puzzles in life is that of we American Indians trying to figure out the stories and history of our ancestors.

Most of our history is told and passed down by oral tradition. So centuries of our own stories have never be heard as they’ve faded over time. We often long to connect in some way with those family members, so that we can understand more about their world and about ourselves, and so they’re never forgotten.

My guest today – Jennifer Story - posed a mystery to me as we were preparing ahead of time for this episode. She stated that as many Choctaws from Mississippi were being removed to Indian Territory (on what’s now known as the “Trail of Tears”), she was baffled by the question that kept coming to her mind - why were her Choctaw ancestors removed many years later than the others?

Listen to today’s episode to hear about this mystery unraveled and solved! 

You’ll also learn about:

• A man named Bearheart
• Some unlikely next door neighbors
• What Jennifer learned as she cared for her ill brother
• The stories from Jennifer playing a dancer in the movie, Killers of the Flower Moon (guess whose famous actress’ shoes Jennifer was given to wear in the movie!)
• How her legendary Aunt Esther single-handedly saved the Tewa language
• Hear what famous actor attended Aunt Esther’s funeral
• Jennifer and I had such a fun time, so you may be hearing quite a dose of laughter from us Choctaw gals

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S2, E15: The Edwards Store, The Treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek & A Woman Named Sukky: Chrissy Gray Dickmeyer, Choctaw

The year was 1830. Up to 6,000 Choctaws gathered each day. White observers also decided to come along. Cattle was butchered to feed the masses, supplies were set up in tents and all were anxious to observe what was to come.

Gambling tables were provided - an activity that opened the door to brawls. Tables were knocked over amongst the fights and many were bullied by trigger-happy troublemakers. On the other hand, Christian services took place amongst the chaos. The Choctaw danced throughout the night, then retired in camps along Dancing Rabbit Creek, while the whites encamped in random spots. 

The most notable of the Choctaw were present - Chiefs Greenwood LeFlore, Mushulatubbee, and Nittakechi, Choctaw warrior, Hopaii Ishkitini and many others.

But this was no celebration. The most significant treaty between the US Government and the Choctaw was to be negotiated and signed on September 27^th, 1830 at this very site. These signatures meant the Choctaw would be surrendering 11 million Mississippi acres, the removal to Indian Territory imminent. The lives and futures of the Choctaw people would be changed forever.

Amongst these goings on, there once lived a prominent Choctaw woman named Sukky who lived with her husband and 2 kids just up the hill from the Treaty grounds. What did Sukky have to do with these events?

My guest, Chrissy Gray Dickmeyer is a descendant of Sukky and reads to us about a perspective around the gathering of the Choctaw during the signing of The Treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek and the struggle she must have faced with the guests she had to host in her home.

But there’s even more…Chrissy also reads to us about the stories of The Edwards Store – a historic trading post that’s been in her family for 170 years! This trading post, nestled among the beautiful San Bois Mountains in Oklahoma, was absolutely essential for the Choctaw. And we’ll also talk about how molasses was a staple by the gallon!

YOU are invited to come visit The Edwards Store, see this living piece of history for yourself, sip on some sweet tea and sit a spell.

Oh and one more thing. Chrissy and I discuss something very important. What REALLY IS in the panhandle of Oklahoma? Okies, you know what I’m sayin’, right?

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S2, E13: Choctaws & The Making of Hochatown: Meet Shauna Williams, Choctaw

Enchanting historic roads wind through the miles of evergreen trees in the Kiamichi Mountains of southeastern Oklahoma. The shaky autumn leaves tinted in colors of gold and rust drift to the earth with the Oklahoma wind, whispering the tales of those who have come and gone.

The Caddo Indians would be pushed out of their region by those Choctaw who had survived the Trail of Tears, removed from their original homelands of Mississippi, Louisiana and Arkansas and placed in this new land in Indian Territory. The original bustling town, filled with busy Choctaws going about their day is now under water. Big Foot, who supposedly once ventured through the hills seeking food, faded into but a legend. The bootleggers who honed their skills creating, drinking and selling hooch along the riverbeds of the dark forests, slowly gave way to roads, shops and tourists (or did they?).

I turned to a Choctaw expert who grew up near Hochatown, Shauna Williams to learn more about this mysteriously beautiful part of the state and the comings and goings of such fascinating people, hairy creatures and moving towns. I also asked about the many fun things to do in Hochatown with kids, family or a significant other - from warm fireplaces in lovely cabins nestled in the woods, to adventures for the kids, to camping, to Big Foot hunting and more!

Shauna is the Executive Director of Communications for the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma. The day I visited with her at Hochatown at the Choctaw Nation Community Center, there was a big announcement coming that was top secret, and a celebration was even taking place that evening. You can only imagine how intrigued I was. Get ready for the Choctaw Nation's New Entertainment & Resort Development in Hochatown, Okla!

I’m excited for you to hear this week’s episode about beautiful Hochatown, which is east of the Mountain Fork River in southeastern Oklahoma! Today you’ll hear about:

• The history of Hochatown and how it got its name
• Our Choctaw influence in Hochatown
• Why this town is deemed the “Moonshine capital of Oklahoma”*
• Big Foot. Yep. He’s here, y’all. And no one loves Big Foot more than the people of Hochatown!
• Is the original town now really under 200 feet of water?
• Hear Shauna’s own ancestral history and why her uncle had to hide out in the mountains of Smithville.
• FYI, Hochatown is near Broken Bow, so you’ll often hear both names.
• *Shauna and I can neither confirm nor deny if hooch is still being made in the mountain woods…

I hope you’ll enjoy, and if you’ve been to Hochatown, feel free to post photos to my Native ChocTalk Facebook page. Yakoke! https://www.facebook.com/nativechoctalkpodcast

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S2, E12: The Strength of the American Indian Woman: Inspiration for Women’s History Month, Rachael Youngman, Native ChocTalk Podcaster

I was recently asked to speak with some inspiring 6^th through 12^th graders - young ladies of an Oklahoma Native American boarding school that’s near and dear to my heart.

 

After eating dinner with these intelligent (and fun) gals, many of them eager for their next steps and about to head into the adult world, I talked about Women’s History Month and what it means for us as Native American women.

 

“How many of you can name at least one famous American Indian Chief?”, I asked. Many of the girls blurted out multiple names of Chiefs that both Natives and non-Natives could easily recall.

 

“And now, outside of Pocahontas and Sacagawea, can you name some notable American Indian women from history?” The room was silent, as they each started to scan the room for their counterparts who may know. Perhaps they were thinking, “Surely there are several significant Native women we can talk about, right?”

 

It’s not that these important women don’t exist, they’re just not as well documented and certainly aren’t as well known. Think about it. Can YOU name a few?

 

Don’t worry, there’s no judgement here and I’ll save you some time – check out this list for starters, from powwow.com, “20 Native American Women You Should Know”: https://www.powwows.com/20-native-american-women-you-should-know/

 

I went back to my computer later after I met with these ladies and recorded what was in my presentation so that you may also take a listen. I hope you’ll share this episode with your female friends and family members, daughters, nieces, students and so on. It may be a good way for them to start thinking about their own futures and the preservation of the stories of their female ancestors.

 

In this episode, I share about my own story – the struggles and the successes (cliff notes version of Native ChocTalk’s Episode 1, Season 2). And I delve into the story of the Choctaw woman, Ella Davis, who was given up to a white guardian when she was only 3 years old, and was treated as one of a few slaves in the household. I also tell her of her mother and her mother’s mother, who if you didn’t really take time to peel back the “layers of the onion” of their stories, you’d think they were neglectful and uncaring mothers.

 

The strength of these women should be one for the history books. And yet their stories, and that of many other Native women in history are rarely preserved. The journeys they made and the struggles they faced have been forgotten – even discarded, like dust in the wind.

 

And now it is up to us, to both learn about and preserve the stories of those females who came before us. And it is also now our time to make history too!

 

I thank you, my sisters – both past and present, and those young ladies I met with from the boarding school. I am so proud of you already. I know you will go into the world, work hard, pave your own way, break historical trauma cycles that may be looming and inspire those around you. Maybe someday you will be a guest I’ll be interviewing at Native ChocTalk. And perhaps we’ll be reading about YOU when it comes to Women’s History Month! Please know, I am cheering you on and I will be here for you along your journey.

 

A special thank you to the ladies’ Dorm Manager at the school and for suggesting this chance to visit with these future generations. I’m inspired by the sincere love you have for these girls.

 

Yakoke!

S2, E11: When Past Meets Present: Jake Tiger (Seminole) on Living & Preserving the Traditional Seminole Way of Life

“Be proud of who you are because your existence is a resistance against cultural genocide.”

- Jake Tiger, Seminole

 

He’s the Seminole from Seminole, Oklahoma who works for the Seminole Nation. Can he even get more Seminole? Meet Jake Tiger, y’all!

In addition to being a Seminole Jake is also:

• A subject matter expert on and creates/sews/crafts Seminole textiles and traditional garments:
  • Did you know in the old days, it cost 16 deer hides to buy 1 flintlock rifle and 1 to 2 deer hides for 1 yard of calico fabric?
• Hear about how Jake’s grandpa was the leading expert in Seminole textiles and revelation that came to Jake upon his grandpa’s death
• An actor in films and commercials. Check him out in Killers of the Flower Moon, Reservation Dogs and more. In Reservation Dogs, see if you can find him in Season 1, episode 4 – he tells a funny story about something he did while on set. Listen to also find out which character he was forced to play on a show when he lost in rock, paper, scissors.
• Someone you’d really want to know if the world came to an end, because as his ancestors before him, he knows the Native way to live in nature. He shares about:
  • How bear intestines are good for bow string
  • How to use bear grease
  • Flint knapping
  • Brain tanning, which came with a warning to not eat while you’re listening to this episode. “You’ll never look at strawberry milk the same again.” – Jake Tiger
• A descendent of 2 war chiefs – Black Hawk (Sac and Fox) and Osceola
• He’s like a capybara (listen to the episode to find out why he says so)

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S2, E10: Shell Shaker: A Chickasaw Opera, Jerod Impichchaachaaha Tate, Chickasaw Composer

“Chickasaw legend tells of a girl who is teased by other children and named Loksi’—Turtle—for her slowness. Upon the counsel of a river, she goes to live in the forest. There, she finds hospitality among the turtle people. One day, the god of the turtles asks her to tell her fellow humans to treat turtles with respect and kindness, and gives her a gift of turtle shells filled with pebbles and seeds to bring back with her. The rattles were adopted by the people of Loksi’ and used to accompany dances and ceremonies, a reminder to treat the natural world with care.”* (from interactive.wttw.com)

As a former opera singer with a music degree, I’m ecstatic about today’s Native ChocTalk episode! Here we have something unprecedented - an opera in an American Indian language (Chickasaw), by an American Indian Composer (Jerod Impichchaachaaha Tate), and we all should be celebrating this enormous breakthrough in Native arts!

In this episode, Jerod discusses with me (like the music nerds we are):

• How there aren’t rules set up yet around how spoken and sung Chickasaw may differ. (In traditional operas with languages such as French and Italian, etc., there are often rules about the differences between spoken and sung.)
• The challenges around composing in a difficult language, paired with an extremely demanding genre such as opera, to complete a work that has never been attempted before. This requires a modern Chickasaw speaker (Joshua Hinson) who interprets and translates the words into text, as well as a Dramateur/Librettest (libretto = the wording in an opera), Lyla Palmer, partnering with a Composer such as Jerod who has vision and determination to see this opera to fruition. And voila – you now have something unique and beautiful.

Stay tuned for upcoming announcements, as this opera is most likely going live November of 2022 at UMass Amherst!

Three cheers for these talented folks, as well as the singers!

• Jerod Impichchaachaaha Tate: Composer
• Tianhui Ng: Conductor
• Lokosh (Josh Hinson): Interpreter/Translator
• Margaret Wheeler: Costume Design

Find and follow Jerod Tate here:

• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jerodtatecomposer
• Website: https://jerodtate.com/

*https://interactive.wttw.com/playlist/2021/11/23/jerod-impichchaachaaha-tate

 

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S2, E9: ’Nothing About Us Without Us’: Nancy Tecumseh Mason (Choctaw) Empowering Our Native Youth

Although she’s Choctaw, my guest, Nancy Tecumseh Mason is immersed within her husband and children’s tribe (Muscogee Nation). And for years now, Nancy has relentlessly poured her time and energy into supporting the youth of the tribe as Director of the Mvskoke Nation Youth Services.

In this episode, you’ll hear about Mvskoke Nation Youth Services: 

• This program is created by youth for youth, and “Nothing about us without us” is the motto that empowers these youth to make decisions and to have a voice at the table from day one.
• Check out Mvskoke artists, including some pieces from these talented youth, where you can even purchase some of their items! https://www.mvskokeyouth.com/mvskokeartists 

You’ll also learn about:

• The story of her dad and her Uncle Amos who both had an eye for Nancy’s mother 
• The many spellings and versions of the Muscogee name
• Nancy isn’t related to Tecumseh, the Shawnee Warrior Chief we’ve read about in history books, but we do talk about the historical rhyme that could correct the way many of us say, “Tecumseh”. How do YOU say this name?

Mvskoke Nation Youth Services: 

• Website: https://www.mvskokeyouth.com/ 
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MvskokeYouth
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mvskokeyouth/ 

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S2, E8, Christianity and Spirituality in the Native American Community: Monroe Tsatoke, Kiowa Pastor

Prior to non-Natives settling in what is now the United States, Native American spirituality had solidified over centuries, differing within each tribe. That spirituality included rituals and inner meditations around nature, harmony, community and more.

But it wasn’t long after the settlers arrived that missionaries felt called (or were sometimes appointed) to spread the gospel of Jesus to the Indigenous people. Some missionaries grew to love their friendships with the Natives, even adopting some of their culture, language and ways of life, some even creating dictionaries which thankfully today can be attributed to the preservation of languages that otherwise would have become “dust in the wind”.

The darker side to the infiltration of the missionaries was displayed by those who had a more sinister goal in mind, “beating” the spirituality, language, culture and traditions out of the Indigenous people so that the non-Natives would be more easily able assimilate them into their own culture and grab their land and resources.

You may recall my friend and guest who appeared in Season 1 - Monroe Tsatoke (Kiowa), descendent of Hunting Horse and Monroe Tsatoke of the well-known artist of The Kiowa 5/Kiowa 6. He joins us again to share about:

• How some Native Christians still practice their traditional spirituality but face judgement from both the Christian community and the Native community for doing both
• The history of the United Methodist Church among Native Americans
• His own experience of being talked down to by outside missionaries
• How Stumbling Bear was one of the first Methodist Kiowas to convert to Christianity
• About his grandparents who would walk 5 miles to church every Sunday to preach
• How Monroe almost ruined the Christmas pageant and other hilarious stories from Kiowa country
• Monroe himself also sings for us in his Native tongue (Kiowa)

You’re invited to hear Monroe preach at Hunting Horse United Methodist Church: 611 S 25th, Lawton, OK at 11:00 am on Sundays.

 

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S2, E7, P2: Jim Gray, Former Chief of the 𐓁𐓣 𐓂𐓤𐓘𐓯𐓤𐓘͘ (Osage) Nation, on His Family & The Reign of Terror

“Despite our wealth, our lives were cheap. 
- Jim Gray discussing his Osage people in “Indian Country Today” magazine, Sept 13, 2019

On February 6th, 1923, hunters came upon a Buick that had crashed into a slope in Fairfax, Oklahoma. The 40-year-old driver was found slumped over the steering wheel, a bullet in the back of his head. He was an Osage man, lured into a dangerous trap by a white man - someone he thought was a good and trusted friend. 

The book, “Killers of the Flower Moon” by David Grann tells the story of the Osage murders and “The Reign of Terror”, a time when non-Native guardians were killing for the sake of inheriting land. But not just any land – Oklahoma mineral rich land, and the oil was producing millions of dollars for the tribe. This story is soon to be released as a movie by Martin Scorsese, with Robert De Niro, Leonardo DiCaprio and an impressive slew of Native actors from across Oklahoma and elsewhere.

Join me in this conversation with Jim Gray, the great grandson of the man found murdered in the car - Henry Roan. Although it happened long ago, the pain couldn’t be more real, and it’s still felt today among his family members and the community.

As former Chief of the Osage Nation, Jim was actually the youngest Chief in modern history and you’ll hear about how in 2004, he was able to ensure the Osage’s sovereignty was finally recognized!

You’ll also learn about:

⦁ The impact Jim had on Martin Scorsese to rewrite the “Killers of the Flower Moon” script
⦁ How his friend taught Robert De Niro to speak Osage 
⦁ Thoughts on Osage living side-by-side with descendants of those who killed the Osage
⦁ The story of David Grann at a book signing. Hint: the descendants of both William Hale and Henry Roan were present
⦁ Whizbang, OK and why Jim’s face turned red
⦁ The latest on McGirt vs Oklahoma and tribal sovereignty, and Governor Stitt’s fight to have the Supreme Court ruling reversed

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